Volume control

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trondis23
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:40 am

Volume control

Post by trondis23 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:46 pm

Neutron uses the standard volume controls to set the volume. I'd wish the player had its own volume control that overrides the system control. The reason is that the standard control is very course, and it is difficult to set an accurate volume. Also, I would like to set a maximum sound level for the player. The reason for this is that it is too easy to set the level too high. Last week I blew up a nice pair of ears because of it - they are still ringing after listening to music too loud.

Remember all: listening to music too loud can permanently damage your hearing.

schawo
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:04 am

Re: Volume control

Post by schawo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:12 pm

It has a master gain slider, which is fully independent, and you can use to limit the output volume, while still being able to use the android multimedia volume buttons (the hardware ones).

Mission accomplished. :)

And please don't remap the hardware keys to software function, because it will mess up devices with special hardware key settings.

trondis23
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:40 am

Re: Volume control

Post by trondis23 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 am

schawo wrote:It has a master gain slider, which is fully independent, and you can use to limit the output volume, while still being able to use the android multimedia volume buttons (the hardware ones).

Mission accomplished. :)
I know about the master gain slider. But I want to know exactly what master volume I will get through a piece of music. I often listen to music with extreme dynamic changes. That's what happened last week. The piece started very soft and ended very loud, and I was tempted to turn up the volume when it started.

I think that the gain slider is useful to limit the master volume only if the Android volume is at a constant level. But it's not, since I sometimes use it for other multimedia. If I change the volume using the hardware keys I just see the green slider, which isn't an accurate readout. I can set it to max, of course. But then I might blow my ears again when using other multimedia programs and forget to turn it down first. Ideally it should be a feature of the Android system to set a max volume. I am afraid to give a phone to my kids for listening to music because of it.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Volume control

Post by dmitrykos » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:04 am

With Neutron there are 3 volume controls available:

1) Preamp: it affects audio before any effects applied, in our case Equaliser, Crossfeed, Surround.
2) Master: after all affects and mixing, affects audio before it is sent to audio back-end of Android OS for final output.
3) Hardware: not related to Neutron, this is standard hardware volume control of any Android device which is mapped to Up/Down kejs on the side of the device (usually left).

1) and 2) are digital controls. Thus using them above 0 dB (middle point of slider with 0 on left side) will likely truncate audio signal if user is listening to normalized music. Normalized means, if we represent audio signal in range between -1.0 and 1.0 then volume peaks can reach max -1.0 or 1.0. Usually all commercial music is normalized. If digital gain is applied, which is multiplication then peaks will easily go above these peaks and will be truncated on output to Android audio back-end.

So, for general use nor Preamp nor Master shall be set above 0 db point, unless music is not normalized and additional digital amplification is necessary. To protect from audio truncation, in last update, there is new feature - Automatic Gain Control (which will be renamed in next release of today to Automatic Gain Protection) which detects overloaded audio and decreases Preamp gain automatically and also checks if Master is 0 or below.

As to 3), it has no relation to Neutron and is not controlled by it.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Volume control

Post by dmitrykos » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:10 am

> Neutron uses the standard volume controls to set the volume. I'd wish the player had its own volume control that overrides the system control.

I could do it may be in Settings as separate dialog or slider which would tune Hardware Gain. I agree that device buttons provide coarse gain steps. Will think how to do it better.

schawo
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:04 am

Re: Volume control

Post by schawo » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:58 pm

Ok, but if you decide to include, please let it be optional. My Galaxy S with special key mapping would go mad if the player would take over the control of the hardware keys.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Volume control

Post by dmitrykos » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:55 am

Yes, I was thinking about Hardware Volume Control entry in Settings which would allow to tune Media Volume. This is just raw guess about the feature. Anyway I am not going to touch/break current implementation with controls like they are now and anything additional will be an option disabled by default.

Joe Bloggs
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:13 am

Re: Volume control

Post by Joe Bloggs » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:31 am

Main issue for me with the volume control is that all of them are on a short slider controllable by dragging the slider with a finger only. In theory this offers fine volume control butin practice I find that with the short travel over the full range (+-30dB for preamp, 0-100% for hardware gain) coupled with inaccuracy of finger touch the volume control is very coarse. Then too I'm just one accidental finger slide away from blowing up my ears. This is close to a deal breaker for me and right now I only use a pair of headphones with its on inline volume control with Neutron after buying the full version.

I can think of many alternatives. eg on Poweramp tapping the pramp bar above and below the slider changes the volume in fine steps. The preamp gain range can be customizable to a much smaller range. Or the sliders (esp the hardware gain slider) can be replaced altogether with up/down buttons offering 0.5dB fine volume steps only, since the hard volume buttons already offer coarse adjustments.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Volume control

Post by dmitrykos » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:19 am

Hardware gain slider changes gain in similar steps as if you press up/down buttons on device. I will consider fine tuning of gain. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Joe Bloggs
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:13 am

Re: Volume control

Post by Joe Bloggs » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:53 pm

Really? I thought it was just my finger being too blunt. :D Thanks for the heads-up--preamp slider is not stepped then?

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