wish : default replaygain value

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SamSam
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am

wish : default replaygain value

Post by SamSam » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 am

Using replaygain has one issue : if one song does NOT have replaygain tags, it will play with 0 gain, while those with RG tags that will play with their computed gain (usually around -10dB).
Thus, that song will play much louder compared to all others.

Two solutions :
1. user has to make sure all songs are replaygained, with no exception. That's hard.
2. provide a setting to apply some kind of "default gain" when no RG info is available.

Foobar provides 2 separate gains values depending on whetherr replaygain info is present :
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Neutron already has a global gain setting with the EQ, it'd just take one more option to set a gain specific for all tracks without RG info to make replaygain much nicer to use on neutron.

what do you think ?

Bjrmd
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:39 pm

Re: wish : default replaygain value

Post by Bjrmd » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:08 pm

Don't bother with replay gain--just normalize the whole folder or group of songs given the equalizer setting you use. I have a mix of mp3, mp4, ogg, wma and the normalize function makes them have the same relative sound loudness.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: wish : default replaygain value

Post by dmitrykos » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:54 am

Probably normalization is the best approach to go. The thing is that when you decrease gain of track with RG it is done on Preamp level and thus quality is lost due to narrowed dynamic level. Imagine that you flatten sine wave. In digital domain Neutron's normalization expands audio wave to match dynamic range fully thus you are getting best quality possible. So, I join to Bjrmd's kind advice.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: wish : default replaygain value

Post by dmitrykos » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:55 am

Of course, such behavior to apply default RG value can be implemented and be an option in Settings -> Replay Gain. But again, if you are seeking for quality it is better to go another way and do normalization.

SamSam
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am

Re: wish : default replaygain value

Post by SamSam » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:19 pm

Bjrmd wrote:Don't bother with replay gain--just normalize the whole folder or group of songs given the equalizer setting you use. I have a mix of mp3, mp4, ogg, wma and
I can not try it as my Neutron evaluation time is over, but I read the description of that feature on this site, and this is definitely a very different goal than replaygain's.
the normalize function makes them have the same relative sound loudness.
It might very well work for your files, as long as all those tracks were mastered with similar amount of dynamic range compression.
Try adding a few classical music tracks in the middle, to see if those do sound as loud as, say, Queens of The Stone Ages tracks.
Answer : the classical tracks will sound roughly a dozen dB quieter. That's easy to notice.

Normalization aims at peak values. Replaygain aims at *perceived loudness*, and that's quite different.

So, thanks but no, that's no substitute for my use of replaygain.

SamSam
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am

Re: wish : default replaygain value

Post by SamSam » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:34 pm

dmitrykos wrote:Of course, such behavior to apply default RG value can be implemented and be an option in Settings -> Replay Gain
Yes please. If you bothered to implement RG, it's really best to provide a convenient way of using it.
But again, if you are seeking for quality it is better to go another way and do normalization.
I understand your argument, but there's something that makes it a moot point : the loudness race. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

RG atenuates some tracks by only a few dB, others by 10dB or even 12dB. That's because those have been mastered with heavy dynamic range compression. That compression only has one goal : make that track sound as loud as possible. In the process, much of the sound quality is lost. The low end of the dynamic range is then mostly artefacts. No point in trying to preserve it.

If I play my music with normalization based on peaks, I'll still have to change volume from track to track because some are made to sound much louder than others (at same peak value).

That is why replaygain was designed.
And that's why I'd rather lose a dozen dB out of the 100dB dynamic range, rather than be bothered to reach for the +/- buttons all the time.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: wish : default replaygain value

Post by dmitrykos » Tue May 21, 2013 3:30 pm

From next update Settings -> Replay Gain section will contain GAIN W/O 'RG' slider which will allow to set the default replay gain value for tracks without replay gain information in tags, just like in provided example for the Foobar.

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