Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Support questions for Neutron Player only.
julian67
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:19 pm

Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by julian67 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:26 am

If I use Neutron as UPnP/DLNA Renderer there are gaps between tracks which should play gaplessly. There is an artificial delay and I hear a small click.

I am using BubbleUPnP client/app and server with Minimserver. All my other UPnP/DLNA renderers on Android, Linux and Windows play gaplessly. BubbleUPnP client on the same device as Neutron plays gaplessly.

The audio streams are flac 44100 16-bit.

Neutralizer
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by Neutralizer » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:24 pm

Hi, I am about to buy neutron as it seems it's the best audio player for Android.
I was about to open a new thread then I saw this.
My problem with the evaluation version is I want to use neutron as renderer and have noticed various problems related to that (renderer mode):
It is recognized as gapless renderer but if a change in the playlist occurs:
- it messes up the song queue (plays next song no matter what, then repeats the previous and the next and then goes on with rest)
- it does not report the right position (ie remaining time) to the controller.
- album art does not refresh from track to track

Also irrelevant to changing the playlist, it's a matter of time to crash if used as renderer and anyone (either from the device buttons or from a dlna controller) changes the volume. Just play with the volume for a while and it's sure to crash (when used as renderer).

The above happen for me at 4 different android devices with 4 different android editions (jellybean to Marshmallow), all unrooted and stock.

So assuming the renderer code is the same in the evaluation and the paid version, I would like to ask whether the developer would invest time to improve this aspect of neutron.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by dmitrykos » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:14 pm

Hi, thank you for the comments!

Was testing Neutron's UPnP Renderer with 'JRiver Media Center' which truly works as gapless UPnP controller app, e.g. it calls NextAVTransportURI() with a next track and Neutron plays it in gapless mode (or it can do it with Crossfading if Crossfade is active).

I was checking that with BubbleUPnP Android app as UPnP controller but it does not call NextAVTransportURI() and thus gapless behavior is actually impossible in such situation.

> Neutralizer

Will try to reproduce the issues you noticed and of course behavior must be improved.

julian67
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:19 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by julian67 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:17 am

Hi dmitrykos, thanks for your reply. This prompted me to have another look at BubbleUPnP server's options and I find that if I make the Neutron Player an OpenHome Renderer then gapless works as expected.

Neutralizer
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by Neutralizer » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:41 am

I noticed the volume changing related crashes were fixed in the updated evaluation version. So I bought the app.

The other problems I have described remain, hoping for them to have some of your attention too.

I will be reporting again in greater detail, thanks.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by dmitrykos » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 pm

Neutralizer, would you please advise what app are you using as Controller so that I could experiment?

> - it messes up the song queue (plays next song no matter what, then repeats the previous and the next and then goes on with rest)

Does it happen on a track list change only?

Neutralizer
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by Neutralizer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:01 pm

Hi dmitrykos,

as it happens I am also using the above combination mentioned be the OP. In detail:

DLNA/uPnP server: minimserver on a Windows 7 laptop
Controllers: BubbleUPnp app on android, BubbleUPnp server on the Windows 7 Laptop
Renderers: BubbleUPnp app on android

Now I would like to be able to use Neutron also, as renderer, because of its outstanding output quality (a 24/7 android tablet is connected to my AVR receiver)

As far as
dmitrykos wrote:I was checking that with BubbleUPnP Android app as UPnP controller but it does not call NextAVTransportURI() and thus gapless behavior is actually impossible in such situation
I have to report that gapless *is* working, but with the problem that functionality is intermittent in an erratic way. Sometimes it goes fine, sometimes there's a gap. That, on the same pair of tracks (tested again and again with the same pair of tracks). So if there are times it works, either BubbleUPnP is calling the above function, or gapless behavior is possible without it. The above test done using the android BubbleUPnP app, without creating and using the intermediate Openhome renderer that BubbleUPnP server is capable of.
dmitrykos wrote:Does it happen on a track list change only?
Yes. In the case of gapless. Try to change the next track. Even if you do it very early, the next track played will be the pre-change one no matter what.

I need to point out here that there are no problems if BubbleUPnP is configured to talk to a non-gapless neutron renderer.
Explaining: BubbleUPnP has this server that can run on PC and is able to create Openhome conforming renderers from the available renderers found on the network (it creates an openhome renderer that acts as an intermediary). When you create such an openhome renderer, you have the option of making it gapless (that option is not available for any renderer, but for neutron it is).
So, if I create this openhome neutron renderer and choose to *not* make it gapless everything is working fine. All problems (namely the intermittent gap, the track list mess in the case of a list change, and lagging track info refreshes on the controller) are related to the gapless mode.

Thanks for your attention

Neutralizer
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm

Neutron as renderer crashes when volume change requested

Post by Neutralizer » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:46 pm

Neutralizer wrote:I noticed the volume changing related crashes were fixed in the updated evaluation version. So I bought the app.
Maybe it was just luck that I didn't experience the volume changing crashes on the new evaluation version? I don't know. Only thing I know is the problem continues in the paid version. And is very easy to reproduce: just play with the volume for a while from any controller.

Controllers I tried and the problem is there with all of them:

Neutron (from another android device)
BubbleUPnP (from another android device)
Linn Kazoo (from a PC)
Linn Kinsky (from a PC)

Even tried deselecting the 'Hardware Gain (Adjust hardware audio gain (DAC) with slider)' option, no luck.

In this kind of crash the currently playing audio track always finishes, it's just that the UI stops responding.
Then after a while the standard android message about the process not responding comes up.

Neutralizer
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by Neutralizer » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:58 am

Hello again,

I am happy to report that the problems above seem to have been fixed, and the only one remaining is in the case of changing the playlist on the fly, specifically changing the next to the currently playing track. Always talking about the gapless case.

Thanks for improving this aspect of Neutron.

cuchu
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:50 pm

Re: Neutron as UPnP Renderer not gapless

Post by cuchu » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:02 pm

Neutralizer wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:01 pm
Hi dmitrykos,

as it happens I am also using the above combination mentioned be the OP. In detail:

DLNA/uPnP server: minimserver on a Windows 7 laptop
Controllers: BubbleUPnp app on android, BubbleUPnp server on the Windows 7 Laptop
Renderers: BubbleUPnp app on android

Now I would like to be able to use Neutron also, as renderer, because of its outstanding output quality (a 24/7 android tablet is connected to my AVR receiver)

As far as
dmitrykos wrote:I was checking that with BubbleUPnP Android app as UPnP controller but it does not call NextAVTransportURI() and thus gapless behavior is actually impossible in such situation
I have to report that gapless *is* working, but with the problem that functionality is intermittent in an erratic way. Sometimes it goes fine, sometimes there's a gap. That, on the same pair of tracks (tested again and again with the same pair of tracks). So if there are times it works, either BubbleUPnP is calling the above function, or gapless behavior is possible without it. The above test done using the android BubbleUPnP app, without creating and using the intermediate Openhome renderer that BubbleUPnP server is capable of.
dmitrykos wrote:Does it happen on a track list change only?
Yes. In the case of gapless. Try to change the next track. Even if you do it very early, the next track played will be the pre-change one no matter what.

I need to point out here that there are no problems if BubbleUPnP is configured to talk to a non-gapless neutron renderer.
Explaining: BubbleUPnP has this server that can run on PC and is able to create Openhome conforming renderers from the available renderers found on the network (it creates an openhome renderer that acts as an intermediary). When you create such an openhome renderer, you have the option of making it gapless (that option is not available for any renderer, but for neutron it is).
So, if I create this openhome neutron renderer and choose to *not* make it gapless everything is working fine. All problems (namely the intermittent gap, the track list mess in the case of a list change, and lagging track info refreshes on the controller) are related to the gapless mode.

Thanks for your attention
Hi everyone! I need some help. How can I configure Neutron to use it as upnp renderer? I want to use it with bubbleupnp.

Thanks in advance!!!

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